Inconclusive sighting

Very creative Ryu! :) So what you're basically saying is "when will the app(s) have full audio support so that sound clips can be recorded and uploaded as an audio sighting"? I was experimenting with that last year and there was a test sighting floating around somewhere which had an audio clip instead of a picture.

I didn't get a recording for this particular one but that would be nice. Especially for frogs which are much easier to ID by call than a photo, but could also be handy for birds. However, most of my frog recordings go straight to frogwatch- It is just that this particular location isn't a frogwatch site and something I heard as I was racing home. What file formats does CNM accept at the moment?

Thanks Ryu, that all makes sense. In terms of audio, we don't currently accept any formats. But if we did look to go down this path then I think m4a would be the obvious/initial one that we'd try to push. Most smartphones encode in that format natively and so it should be very easy to get off both iPhone and Android etc. Although considerable enhancements would be required to the app platform to make all of this possible. But sadly for now Ryu, I think we are going to have to reject and delete this sighting until the platform can better support what you're trying to do here.

I have submitted a sighting like this before http://canberranaturemap.org/Community/Sightings/Details/2184035 without any problems. I've done frogwatch since 2007 and I do know my frogs, and submit recordings of all my frogwatch surveys so Anke Maria knows that. Incidental hearings at non-frogwatch sites like this one is better submitted on CNM and I will only submit those whose IDs I am certain of.

Hi Ryu, we know you certainly know you're stuff and are definitely an extremely knowledgeable CNM power user. There's no question around the accuracy of your IDs, instead its a core principle of the site and our major point of difference, in that for every sighting, there must be some form of evidence attached to the sighting that other users and future generations can actually view/watch/play etc. This also means that by you supplying an audio recording of the frog you heard, it really helps educate other/future users what to listen or look out for. The evidence actually helps spread your knowledge. We want every single sighting on CNM to be able to do that and have those benefits, rather than it ending up as basically just a text database like most other sites become. I hope you can forgive me for taking what seems to be the harsh path this time, but will result in a better resource over the longer term. I am seriously keen to look at doing audio properly so we should come back to thin and discuss more when a few other things are knocked over. Cheers Aaron.

Yes Aaron, I see what you mean and I guess that is one of those things that makes CNM great. Now for this and the other pobblebonk sighting... I've noticed how the frogwatch data gets transferred and all the historical lizard/plant records as well from ACTWildlifeAtlas, most of which don't have associated photos. Is there any chance that these could be incorporated to CNM in a similar manner? The frogwatch database is only designed to taking full surveys of frogs at frogwatch sites. When I happen to hear a frog elsewhere as I go past, is that data worth it? I mean both the grass frog and pobblebonk are fairly common frogs, but I don't like any data going to waste. The fact that these 'incidental' records aren't associated with a frogwatch site means it could be new knowledge in terms of local distribution. Anke, does frogwatch want incidental records like this?

Canberra Nature Map wants to assist anybody make a recording of a plant or animal but in a way that uses of the data can have a high level of confidence in the record. Their are two key components for this the location stripping from GPS devices (or google mapping from trusted uses) and accompanying photos - Records without these details will be rejected. In the future sound recordings may be an additional means of providing people using the data the ability to check identification. Ryu I will put this record on the ACT wildlife Atlas.

Okay Michael. What is the ACT Wildlife Atlas? and here are the other frog heard/seen records for which I was unable to get a recording- http://canberranaturemap.org/Community/Sightings/Details/1974054 and http://canberranaturemap.org/Community/Sightings/Details/2184035 if you would like to do the same for those. Also, thanks for confirming my understanding regarding working out access to sites using ACTMapi. I tried replying to your email but it got bounced.

The ACT Wildlife Atlas is a Government only data base> It assumes that people making a record have correctly identified the animal recorded, and is particularly aimed at recording incidental Ranger observations and survey lists undertaken by consultant. All confirmed CNM records will get added to this data-base. I will add your rejected records - thanks Michael

I have gotten a recording of this on my way back from frogwatch surveys the other night. I found your audio recording one on the CNM test site, but I presume I can't upload M4As at this stage so would it be okay if I submit a sighting with a link to the recording in the comments and I can upload when the functionality is available?

Hi Ryu,

We are only going to accept M4A audio files when recorded directly from the app (either iPhone or Android), simply because we can then verify the GPS location as recorded by the app. It is not a trust issue, but we want to enforce firm evidence across all future sightings that we can guarantee that the audio file was recorded exactly where the app captured the GPS location from. Otherwise, potentially we could end up with someone uploading an audio file and saying it was recorded anywhere. Images are a bit different/easier because the GPS data can be carried around embedded inside the image. So when we get to this point, the best way would be for you to record audio sightings directly via the apps and then everything will just work automatically and you can go berzerk :) I reckon it would be a really neat feature as well and would love to use it for birds as well as frogs! Cheers Aaron.

As i don't have a phone and am unlikely to get one in the near future, does that rule out audio sightings? Would there be any chance to use the same point on map feature as some of my images?
My M4A would be audio extractions from .MOV files from my camera, do MOV files carry GPS?

Ok, let us have a think about this one Ryu. No I don't think MOV files store GPS because it would have to store a whole GPX file trail of everywhere the camera went during filming as a movie is over a long time period as opposed to a picture which is easy etc. Perhaps we just maintain the existing option where "Trusted Contributors" aka experience Frog Watchers and the like can still do a manual upload and specify the location manually using the existing little location tool we already provide for these users with images but no GPS. That might be the best practical way forward Ryu. Apps would always be the preferred/easiest method, but we do this kind of thing for images already, so it actually makes a lot of sense to make that feature available to "power users" etc. But it just wouldn't be enabled by default unless we know and can verify the person's experience level etc. Re: us actually enabling proper audio support, it will be a little while yet and it will be fairly expensive in terms of the enhancements required on both the app's iPhone and Android platforms. So we would need to raise funding to get the work done, perhaps there are some key groups/organisations that will benefit the most from it and may be happy to contribute towards the build costs.

Ryu - at this stage I think you should either place future "sound only" records on the frogwatch site or give me the co-ordinates and I will add to the ACT wildlife Atlas